or the Day My Nose Bled
I arrived at Club Salsa in spectacularly good mood. The end of the last week was really tough, and most of the weekend was quite hellish as well. I probably hit rock bottom on Saturday afternoon confronted with difficult questions and situations seemingly beyond my control while still feeling the aftereffects of my illness. Indecisions and procrastinations dominated; I slogged through each problem one at a time while other problems kept gnawing away in back of my mind. The blog entry for Friday was the first to be completed. Next to be completed was an answer to an annoying and tricky question asked by my fairy godfather. Other work was not completed until well past 2 AM with exhaustion and hunger setting in and with my mind dazed and confused. Another piece for Tony & Claudia workshop was completed on Sunday. A lot of annoying clutter both physical and mental at work was cleaned up, and correspondences with the Prince of West I had been avoiding were re-initiated and completed. A delightful reply came from my fairy godfather – I suspect that this probably was the big turning point, which perhaps led to me making a decision on another dilemma – a decision that does not solve the problem but at least gave me a peace of mind and a semblance of control. I suppose most things are rarely or never fully resolved so simply getting to a point of being able to manage or at least feeling in control of the situation is as about as ideal as it usually gets. Finally, my nose bled this afternoon signaling the end of my illness; my nose always bleeds when I am nearly or completely cured of my cold/flu. Looking back, I wonder if I would have as good a time as I did tonight if it weren’t for having overcome difficulties of last several days. Looking back, outside factors absolutely always had a great deal of effect on my Salsa dancing - my meeting with the venerable Emperor of Mars last year (not disclosed here) and the amazing SOS evening after going through another very rough weekend of massive problem fixing and after having sown seed for meeting with Tony & Claudia (not fully disclosed here either) are excellent examples. Because of special circumstances surrounding this evening, it is very difficult to imagine that there will be many evenings in future that will top this one. It would be very nice if there will be a lot more like this though – possibly even if I have to go through Inferno.
Intermediate Joe Davids of Latin Collective (with Russell)
1,2,3,5,6,7 basic
1,2,3,5,6,7 cross body lead with leader turning full counterclockwise on 7 to get back to open and reconnecting with L-R (optional)
1,2,3,5,6,7 prepare and lead double turn ending (R hand behind back waist) with 1/2 turn leader’s counterclockwise turn on 7 with L-R drop at R shoulder and connect R-R at waist level
1,2,3,5,6,7 show L hand early, open break and bring follower forward with R-R going over follower’s head and L-L connection low – let follower go forward on 5 – check (or block) with L-L low to lead follower backwards while follower also turns full counterclockwise (I think tension is pretty important here) keeping L-L low (R-R is high but is mostly decorative) – stay behind follower
1,2,3,5,6,7 R-R going over follower’s head on 1 (something like an open cross body position here on 8/1) – something like a back basic (I think footwork is more by feel here rather than there being an orthodox step – it depends on how follower moves too) – lead follower forward (leading with L-L on waist) on 5 and into traveling 1 1/2 clockwise turn with L-L brought high after about 1/2 turn and then with leader turning full counterclockwise on 7 or so (I suppose depending on how far follower has turned)
1,2,3,5,6,7 open break (crossed hold – really doesn’t matter which connection is higher) and Copa (body lead with L hand on follower’s R waist/hip) so that follower does a free 1 1/2 counterclockwise turn (Copa steps) and leader can do something like a full clockwise turn to get back to open or closed position – possibly even cross body lead position
This was a mind-blower. It was not an easy one – I could barely do it only occasionally in normal speed – but I couldn’t have been in a better shape for it. It was a great challenge and fun to try to pull off on the dance floor during the social hours. While I never got around to doing the routine from beginning to the end, quite a few of the bits and pieces worked very nicely and delightfully.
Vishal thought the routine seemed very orthodox yet looked spectacular. I couldn’t say if it looked spectacular when I did it (as I don’t get to see how I dance), but it was certainly a lot of fun and it felt very natural.
Improvers
1,2,3,5,6,7 cross body lead – switch to R-R
1,2,3,5,6,7 L-L over R-R – Copa fake + something else I don’t remember what Joe called it – it’s somewhat similar to Reverse cross body lead – with L-L goes forth forward instead of back like Copa and is led to 1 1/2 clockwise turn (tension here seemed very important – more so than reverse cross body lead with 1 1/2 clockwise turn for follower with R-R high)
1,2,3,5,6,7 L-L hat for leader and cross body lead
a variation
1,2,3,5,6,7 stop follower from turning further on previous 8 with R hand on follower’s back and full pivot turn clockwise on 1,2,3 and hat for leader with back basic on 5,6,7
Dancing tonight was amazingly good. I would consider an evening really good if I have one or two spectacularly good dance that both my partner and I enjoyed tremendously. Tonight, I think nearly half of the dances had that feel. This was not limited to dances with experienced followers – some of the dances with beginners were also spot-on. I probably danced like a madman on fire. I’m not sure if it looked good, especially to a purist, but I think many of the dances tonight were full of electricity. I suppose I did run out of energy after a while – not having a dinner while dancing til close to midnight should do it.
As I was about to leave, I complimented Joe about the classes tonight and said that I really enjoyed them. Joe in his reply mentioned that one other person mentioned that his mind felt completely scrambled by the first class. I replied that it was indeed challenging but also very exciting. Russell chimed in and said something about how some of those moves are led by feel (presumably as opposed to a set of predetermined and reproducible footwork, etc). Joe also said something along the lines of there being only about 50 Londoners, with whom he dance with regularly and have appropriate level of tension for him to dance and lead the way he wants to. I in reply mentioned that I dance with so many Cuban style followers that I’m thoroughly used to not having any tension – and that this really hasn’t bothered me much as long as I stay away from trying to lead many multiple turns as part of a combination. I suppose I don’t need or haven’t felt the need for the tension thus far, but it does add a great deal of options as I have been noticing over last several weeks. I wonder how it would feel to dance with Joe’s fifty women?
Some shines (from today and over past few lessons)
Suzy Q plus – I am pretty sure that Sally uses this one too although I don’t think I ever got it quite right until tonight – the way it was taught by both Joe and Sally seemed essentially identical
1,2,3 Suzy Q
5,6,7,8,1 Suzy Suzy Q
3 plus (R foot cross over in front of L foot)
5,6,7 Suzy Q
half flare
1 L foot cross over in front of R foot
2 R foot slide to R
3 R foot slide back and transfer weight
4 L foot slide to L
5 L foot slide back and transfer weight
6 R foot slide to R
7 R foot slide back and transfer weight
8 L foot slightly back
1 L foot basic forward
spiral
turn 1/4 and Suzy Q followed by R foot kick on 5 followed by another 1/4 turn, etc
hook step
turn 1/4 while L foot cross over R foot on 1, R foot slide slightly to R, L foot point forward, etc
Other shines dones thus far include Sailor, heel heel toe toe, suzy Q, core beats, zombie, etc. Maybe I should ask Joe for a list of names.
It’s difficult to imagine that my mood will turn black again by next time I go out dancing. I suppose a slight downturn is a possibility (especially considering the unusual high of today), but I should hope that some residual magic lingers on.
4 comments:
Hello HYH,
We have barely spoken before but after reading your entries over the last few months, I would guess that you never intended this to 'go public', let alone be used as a chat site.
I have often thought however, that it would be interesting to hear general views on some of the points you speak of (rather than just comments from the 'affected' parties).
The reason I have chosen to write now is that you made a comment on 'tension' which is exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of.
For most, tension seems to be a tricky concept at best, bordering on the complete mystery.
My understanding is that correct tension helps in every kind of move, from the most basic (ie. shifting from one type of basic step to another) to the most complicated, allowing the dancer to either lead or follow with greater precision, timing, etc. It seems to me that most people are becoming more aware of the neccessity for correct tension but don't know if they have, how to get it, or how to use it. Therefore most of us may be dancing with either too much or too little and often at the wrong times, so we are potentially dancing well below a level our technical knowledge should allow.
As a man trying to lead I have had ladies collapse or loosely over extend when it has just been explained (in a class) why doing so will render the move near impossible and I would hazard a guess that men (myself included) are just as guilty of inprecise leads when the lady felt she was spot on.
I haven't been to a Joe David class, so I can't comment on his teachings but I have been to most others in the area and would say that few teachers give much more than 'this move needs the correct tension' when showing a specific move. I'm guessing this is because its a difficult enough technique to perform and they may only have it through a natural affinity for it, rather than understanding it well enough to be able to pass it on to the rest of us. It may also be that it is left out of classes, as they are supposed to be 'fun' not 'techy', or because most people just don't get it and there isn't time to go over and over it. This may mean though, that we are missing the most important work we need to do to improve.
The closest I have heard to an explanation, or seen a will to develop tension in students is with Sally and Ivan but in a class, even their teaching can only be brief and may sometimes only be put into context properly if you have also done their workshops.
Which probably means the workshops really are the best place to learn about it, as you tend to get one to one advice on what it is you do/don't do specifically. Plus there is more time to teach things like why tension is important overall, rather than just in the context of one specific move.
So back to my original point (finally!). Maybe - discussing a point like this may give us a better understanding of what it is we do (should do, would like to do, enjoy, dislike, etc) when we dance???
Any offers?
(HYH style disclaimer - this message is not supposed to be slanted towards the overall abilities of any individual teachers. It is solely my own thoughts with regard to tension)
Wow. Thanks for a great comment/question. I'm floored. Unless you are feeling very shy, come find me next time you see me at Club Salsa because I feel like I need to shake your hand and thank you in person for your comment. I might seem aloof but this is mostly because I'm not very good with small talk. For the longest time, I thought I might be wasting my time and everyone else's time writing gibberish no one understands. It was only last week that I saw a glimmer of a sign that some people might find this blog useful as a learning tool. Pretty much all feedback previously came from people who know (or think they know) more about Salsa than me, and things they were more interested in were perspective of someone who was learning Salsa as a beginner and progressing to higher levels - possibly as a reminder of how it was for them long time ago and also possibly as a source of encouragement for other people following the same path. Your comment helps to reaffirm to me that I my writing on technical details are possibly of some value.
Before going any further, I want to say to other readers that they should feel free to make any comments or ask any questions and that such comments/questions need not be as impressively expansive as this one. I have been learning about Salsa for just under 1 1/2 years and there is a lot I don't know, but I could try to find the answers and share what I learned. It also would be great if other more knowledgeable people could chime in on this topic.
Meanwhile, here's my take on tension. People in Cambridge really haven't been using tension much because Cuban style has predominated here for a very long time and multiple turns were uncommon. Because Cuban dancers do a lot of complicated things twisting their arms, etc (spaghetti arms), having relaxed arms is normal and even preferred.
With NY/LA/CBL style, I think more tension is used, but it's not quite as simple as having more tension at all times. The amount of tension needed changes depending on the how the leader positions follower's arms.
A classic position in which tension is absolutely essential is when the leader positions follower's arm in a "pizza waiter's position" or "pizza man." Here follower's upper arm is pointing directly in front of her body (possibly slightly towards the center) and is parallel to the ground, and follower's forearm is pointing upwards and is perpendicular to the ground; her hand should be just above middle of her forehead. Placing the follower's arm in this pizza waiter's position signals a turn - the amount of tension needed by the follower here is just enough so that it doesn't move away from the original position as leader turns the follower. This means follower should resist moving her arms sideways or upwards. For the leader, his aim is to turn her around so a slight sideway movement is needed but it should not be a big sweeping motion. Also, the amount of force needed to turn the follower needs to be calibrated - the lead could be too weak or too strong. My personal preference is to be on the weaker side because too strong a lead is more liable to unbalance the follower. I should add that timing is just as important and arguably more important than the correct pressure applied - Others might disagree but impeccable timing plus approximate pressure seems preferable to approximate timing plus impeccable pressure if nothing else because timing is a constant while pressure needed changes depending on the dance partner. When follower has no tension, multiple spins are nearly impossible (heck, even single turn can get messy).
Incidentally, different people use different names by the way … Sergio used Pizza waiter, Joe uses Pizza man, Ivan also referred to something like a power position or triangle.
More often than not, this position is talked about for stationary multiple turns. In Joe's class, however, this pizza man position also gets talked about in other contexts - while doing cross body lead based multiple turns for example.
Again, I don't think you want the same amount of tension all the time - otherwise moves like hats would be very difficult.
If you're really interested in learning more, you really should take opportunity of having Joe here in Cambridge. I think some people don't like the fact that Joe talks so much and gives so much detail - it probably feels like too much for some. If you attend multiple classes, you'll see that he talks about same thing over and over again so that you will have many chances to figure out what he's trying to teach and hopefully it'll stick. His classes when taken as a part of a long program (supposed the intermediate classes involve 20 weeks of classes with a predetermined program) which has a feel of a workshop rather than a drop-in class in part because the key move being taught can be considered a variation on a theme. Joe's classes are very detailed - you might call it techy.
An aside, the term workshop seems like a joke sometimes - for example, workshops at the Congresses (Brit Salsafest) generally felt no different than a drop-in class to me. It sounds like you have taken workshop(s) with Ivan & Sally; I took their intermediate workshop last year and felt that it was a good workshop - or perhaps it's more appropriate to say that it defined what a workshop should be like because it was my first one.
Getting back to the original topic of tension, my understanding is that Joe asks for more tension than most people - more than Ivan, who I think likes more tension than most people in Cambridge. I'm really curious to hear Sergio's opinion on this matter (maybe when he gets back from the USA) because he is proponent of soft smooth leads yet he dances NY style like Joe Davids. I have no idea what Cristian thinks about this. Johnny and I talked about the issue of soft, sharp, smooth leads and precise leads, etc, but the subject of tension never came up before. Johnny & Serap's class talk about tension pretty much only with the absolute beginners.
Getting back to Joe, his comment about there being only about 50 Londoners with appropriate amount of tension in his opinion really illustrates problem of what the appropriate amount really is. Don't you think?
This is a difficult topic to write about because in the end you have to be able to feel the tension. Writing and reading can only do so much. Once you feel the appropriate amount of tension, you'll know it. This is not unlike figuring out how to dance on time.
One other thing. Other people can tell you how to lead, how to follow, what kind of things/moves you try, etc. However, ONLY YOU can determine how you enjoy the dance. I don't think there is much point (I might change my mind later of course) in deciding what kind of things to dislike - it's better to try to enjoy the dance and the moment as best you can (even though I don't always follow this advice myself).
I would be interested in hearing opinions from people who are knowledgeable (e.g. teachers) AS WELL AS students who could perhaps ask a related question, which might help focus the issue even more.
HYH
p.s. I don't know what my intentions were/are regarding this blog. The contents of the blog evolved and expanded as different people gave me feedback (including those before the original controversy broke out). At the very beginning, it was supposed to serve as a note to be shared among fellow students - this ended up being two people (and some of their friends). Then, it was something like a reminder for teachers so that they could remember what they taught for past several weeks - so that they don't repeat the same thing too often. Then, I lost interest in the whole thing as a teaching tool because I began to have doubts about it being useful for anyone but myself and I stopped telling people about it - this made it easier for me to use it as a convenient private diary I could access from any computer in the world. One of the things this did was to help me remember people's names. Some people (very small number of people whom I gave information about this blog) found this diary part more interesting than the description of routines so I started expanding it. I foolishly didn't consider that other people would discover it, and for a short time even after installing a counter, I thought no one was looking at it. That's how it all got started and how things came to be. At some points here and there, I thought about writing a book about it - perhaps a manual or perhaps a memoir. Going public right now holds little interest for me, but who knows what future holds? Chat site idea never came to my mind before either.
One little thing that just struck me.
As a beginner/improver, I didn't like teachers repeating same lessons over and over again (see postscript above), especially when I think I got it first time around.
Now as an intermediate/advanced, I like repeats and variations am really into refining and perfecting techniques although I still love seeing new things as well.
p.s. I could make a caveat or a disclaimer about categorizing beginner, improver, etc, but I won't. In fact, I am tired of my disclaimer jokes and will discontinue them.
Okay. I'm going to try to tackle this problem one more time - and risk revealing myself as an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about (or show an incomplete understanding of the issue - or even not understanding the question in the first place).
The tension issue is about follower keeping her body (in particular her arms in relations to rest of her body) in a fixed position and resisting against outside forces (i.e. leading) from changing the shape for her posture (arm to body). This resistance (or additional amount of resistance) would be requested by the leader when he positions her (arm) in certain agreed upon way (e.g. pizza man). Side-way movement by her arm is what the follower is resisting mostly against (although she shouldn't raise her arm or lower her arm deliberately without an appropriate lead either). Leader isn't providing any tension per se but is applying appropriate amount of pressure in his lead to signal turns, etc - the amount of pressure needed by the leader would depend on many things like number of turns as well as amount of tension follower is providing and arguably the amount of pressure a given follower wants (I suspect this might be a sticking point for some people).
Maybe I would think of it as follower providing a certain amount of tension (or resistance) and leader using the tension (or resistance) to lead moves/turns/etc.
I could go on but this is just too time-consuming. I have no training as a dance instructor, and I certainly don't have a definitive understanding of many of the issues. Heck, I bet different instructors would disagree on many small details - and a lot of this could be thought of as a personal preference rather than there being something set in stone. The fact that Salsa is a street dance and has many styles complicates matters even more. Although I think much of what I'm saying is valid, you should also talk to real teachers - preferably several teachers. Even if every teacher thinks the same, they might explain things differently and some explanations may make more sense than others - not necessarily because one explanation is inherently superior but because of your state of mind (which is another fluid object). Many teachers probably will talk with you free of charge.
Hmm... I really need to cut down.
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